When my wife first moved down here to Ft. Lauderdale after we got married, we lived on one income: mine. We weren’t exactly making all ends meet, but we got by. About a month after she moved down here, she started working for the University of Phoenix. Little did we know it was to be one of the most painful, over-politicized, and horrible times of her life. Eight months later, we’re now finally reaching the end of her stay there. And all I can say is “Thank you, God.”
(Disclaimer: I don’t work at UOP. I’ve never worked at UOP. I don’t study, have never studied, and don’t plan on studying at UOP. After the stories I’ve heard — from numerous employees — regarding the University’s recruitment practices and utter disregard for students’ financial welfare, I don’t think I can ever recommend anyone ever go there.)
(By the way, what follows is merely a rant. If you want to get seriously good information on how the University has mistreated students and employees, check out University of Phoenix Sucks.com.)
Here’s the story: About a month after she moved to Ft. Lauderdale, my wife got a call to interview at UOP, after having slapped together an application thinking “Might as well. Worse they can say is ‘no’, right?” The advertisement for the job detailed the position of an enrollment counselor, and described a person who would be willing to assist students in their transition back into college life. My wife holds four degrees, including a Master’s degree in education and Specialist’s degree in marriage counseling. Although they were looking for school counselors — or so we thought — the requirements matched closely enough.
A day after the interview, my wife got a call that she was to start the next day. “Wow,” we thought. “They must have really liked you!” As we later found out, it had nothing to do with liking, it had to do with an incredibly high turn over rate, almost as if she would be working for some kind of call center. But come now, a call center at a University?
So, she goes in, goes through an orientation and training period which lasted about two weeks, and then was off to do her job. The problem was that her manager and trainer (I’ll call her Lona) wasn’t there about half the time, so the training was mediocre at best, just plain inadequate in reality. When she was put on the floor to work, she was told to start making calls, set appointments, and get students registered and started. Ok, we can handle that. But here was the catch: she had a quota for how many students got started per month, how many calls she had to make per day, how many appointments per week, and how many students put paid applications in.
This was sounding more and more like a sales job. But wait, no one mentioned sales, here or anywhere. Something wasn’t quite right.
So she went on with her days, doing her work as she thought she was supposed to be doing, making calls, setting appointments, getting people started. The numbers weren’t all there, but she was slowly improving. She did this for about two months. Then she was called in to Lona’s office.
“I see your numbers aren’t matching up. What’s the problem?” her manager asked.
“Well,” replied my wife, “I’m meeting with the students, and some of them are just not really interested in starting. I’m not going to force them to do something they don’t want to do.”
“But you have to get the numbers. Didn’t anyone ever tell you this was a sales job?”
“Uhm… no, actually. No one did. I thought I was a counselor, like my title, and what my job description said.”
Of course, this would explain the quotas. The problem was that neither my wife nor anyone else in her group was told that this was a sales position. My wife’s never done sales. They’re not exactly her thing. She’s never been trained for sales. Had she known it was sales, she wouldn’t have taken the position! But here she was. She might as well make the best of it, right?
Armed with a new attitude, my she began to “sell.” She saw this as a great opportunity to expand her skills set, and treated it as such. She still didn’t have any training, so she was a bit like the adventurous teen driving for the first time; she was going by what she thought she knew. This was all well and good, until her managers decided new policies should be put in place: every time a student (or rather, customer) would meet with my wife for an appointment, my wife was to call in the manager in order to help close the sale, no matter what.
The big emphasis here was on filling up certain months. If you, as the sales counselor, were meeting with a customer, and the customer wanted to sign up for a class that started next month instead of this month, you were supposed to tell the student that whatever class they were taking was not being offered that next month, regardless of whether there really was one starting or not. Often times this was because the person looking to start taking the class didn’t have enough money to pay for the class up front, and had already began to budget for next month.
But that wasn’t good enough. It didn’t matter if the student had to go without electricity, miss a car payment, or miss a rent payment. The focus was on getting that sale, right there NO MATTER WHAT, which is why the manager is required to come into every appointment, and must attempt to close the sale if the student has not yet applied. This was about the time my wife began to resent her job, as well as the managers who were instituting these policies.
(From what she tells me, her particular campus now has by far the highest employee turn over rate in the company. Although they led the state in sign ups, and were some of the top in the country, the managers instituted policies independently of the university regarding forced over time and increased call quotas, in order to increase the “disappointing” numbers.)
SIDE NOTE:
Now, let’s take a little trip back in time here: when my wife started working for UOP, she had a manager (I’ll call him Ryan) whom she absolutely adored. His focus was on keeping the employees happy, and he did that rather well. His team was a tightly knit team of workers who had gained spectacular results. When Lona started working for UOP, Ryan was her manager. Lona, however, was known for putting 12 hour days, weekends, and holidays in order to ensure that she got the top results. Of course, she always expected everyone around her to have that same work ethic. (Of course, Lona gets calls weekly from her child’s school regarding disciplinary problems, fights with her husband on a regular basis, and has been seen drunk and playing “guess where my hand is” with one of her female managers in an office holiday party. But I digress…) Lona was never a big fan of Ryan’s management style. Later on, Lona was promoted to Ryan’s position once Ryan left the company. That’s when things started to go downhill, morale-wise.
As time went on, things went from bad to worse. As a punishment for low performance in the sales area, certain employees (my wife included, but not singularly) were no longer allowed to receive new leads, walk-ins, or transfers. In fact, they were taken out of the lead transfer system entirely and were forced to instead call people who had sought information from the University (and did not attend) from no later than 2003, and as far back as 2000. Her call minimum was increased from 70 outbound sales call solicitations per day to 100, and she was to set four appointments per day, no matter how late she had to stay in order to do it. Now, this wouldn’t be so bad if they were allowed to do it at differing times of day, but employees must all start at 9:00 AM and work until daily quotas are met. The problem: most people aren’t home from 9 to 6, so the bulk of their calling goes unanswered. (A previous estimate puts it at around a 5% answer rate, and a 20% appointment rate from that, so if 100 calls are made in one day, you can expect 1 appointment to be made.)
According to the University, one of their rules for admissions is that you must be employed. Classes are accommodated for the 8 to 5 worker by being run in the evening. But employees are locked in to coming in at 9:00 am and must work until at least 6:15pm, making calls. Since most people they target work during those hours, overtime is essentially mandatory in order to meet the appointment quotas. Since most people are home in the evening hours, wouldn’t it make more sense to allow employees to come in a bit later in order to stay later, instead of forcing overtime? I’m sure that’s fine with Lona, but its a problem for employees who consider family to be a higher priority. Of course, Lona can’t see that. People like that never can. They sacrifice their family to the gods of money and power, and worship in the altar of greed by stabbing anyone standing in the way in the back.
So things kept getting worse and worse after that. Morale was — and still is — dirt low, and management treats employee relations as an “Us. vs. Them” battle. Here’s an example: the sales counselors will sometimes get together to discuss work situations and see how they can improve them. When suggestions are agreed upon, they’re taken to management for consideration. (They’ve tired singly suggesting things, but management simply ignores those requests.) While meeting, if complaints or issues are aired by an employee, that employee is essentially black balled, their leads taken away, and forced to work overtime in order to make up the difference. One time, the sales counselors all agreed that coming in at later times would help their numbers, increasing their availability to students and increasing their call to appointment ratio. Management seemingly agreed to this, and passed along an email to the employees asking for what times they wanted to come in. A few weeks later management once again emailed, but this time in order to tell employees that because not everyone sent in an email, they couldn’t “fairly” allow people to stagger their times. Gotta love them flimsy pretext, right Lona?
So now, my wife’s fighting for her job. She’s been given an ultimatum to come up with a plan to increase her numbers or lose her job. The only solution, given the constraints, is to work at least 12 hours a day, every day, making at least 150 outbound phone calls per day. So yes, telemarketing. Maybe UOP could have put that in the job description. That would have saved us a lot of grief, and them a lot of money.
If you’re thinking about working for, going to, or even asking about UOP, watch out. I’m sure situations aren’t as bad as this everywhere else, but in the campus my wife works at, management is run by an extremely political set of managers who would likely fit better in a used car dealership. If you give your phone number to UOP, don’t expect the calls to stop. Ever.
I’m done ranting. I might rant on this a bit more some other time, but who knows. UOP will likely be a thing of the past soon, one way or the other.
Click here for some links on more info:
CBS 60 Minutes: For-Profit College: Costly Lesson
Lawmakers ask Congress to investigate school firms
If you have any experiences with UOP, good or bad, I’d like to hear them.
Hi,
Your story about your wife working at the UOP sounds very similar to my experience at a Wisconsin campus. The only difference is that I was a Financial Couselor and not an Enrollment Counselor. Very common pratices of the UOP…
Thanks,
Mao
I don’t understand your wife’s “fight for her position” in this appalling job. You wrote at the beginning of your post that she has a Masters in Ed., with some counseling experience. Why not just apply to be a school counselor or teacher? There are always vacancies of some sort, esp. for those with an M.A. Phoenix obviously hires almost anyone, which you both learned very quickly. Your wife is too good to work there (you know what I mean), she could do much better, so tell her to stop spinning her wheels, get out and move on.
The fight at the time had more to do with finances than anything else. Yes, she was *WAY* too good to work there (though I’ve seen her do worse, working as a drug counselor in a woman’s residential facility — not good), but I was out of a job and her income was pretty much all we had (we had started a business, but at that time, it wasn’t all that profitable, at least not to support both of us being out of a job). She quickly lost her job after I was able to get a new one, which worked fine for us. Seriously, it was like a frigg’n divine plan or something.
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After “Penix” (as I so lovingly call it), she started teaching, first subbing, then full time. She absolutely hated it. The pay was ok (about $34k), but the hours were insane. She’d leave the house at 7am, not get back until 5pm, then start planning out her courses for the next day, grading papers, and putting together specialized lesson plans for the ESOL kids they put in her class (Hatians without much English knowledge; thing is she only knows a bit of Spanish and no Creole whatsoever). 16-hour days weren’t uncommon, and weekends weren’t optional. After 3 months, they announced that the school was facing funding cuts and because she was the newest teacher on the block, they let her and another teacher go. (They ended up getting rid of a few more later on, I found out.) Teacher shortage my butt, here they were saying they didn’t have enough *students*.
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Here’s what got me in this whole situation: because there technically a “laid off” status for teachers (there’s only “resigned” and “fired”) she wasn’t able to collect any sort of unemployment, since she was forced to resign. (Had she been officially “fired”, then she wouldn’t be allowed to teach again in the state of Florida.)
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Seriously, the education system here — for teachers — is a massively F*k’d up one. After that job, we decided that she wouldn’t be working as a teacher again. (Actually, her 12+ hour days + weekends were cutting into our marriage, badly.) And anyone who says teachers don’t work hard has obviously never been a teacher.
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As for other positions, after that we looked and at that time there were surprisingly few. (There were others as a counselor in a corrections facility, but after seeing what it did to her mental state the first time, working with the druggies and hookers, there was no way in Hell I would have allowed her to get any of those jobs.) She ended up getting a job with the county as a counselor for people going back to school through the workforce agency (ironc, no?) and that’s worked out pretty well up to now. Honestly, my biggest driving force is that within a year she’ll be able to not have to work at a job. (Remember that business we started? It’s now paying off. Not where we want to be, but getting there.)
I work for UOP and I see the pain your wife goes through everyday. Luckily I work on the tech side of the company which is a lot more stable and well off. I admin the recording software used to monitor calls of counselors (enrollment, academic, and finance).
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My job is a pain in the ass because of the huge turnover rate of counselors and their managers. It just doesn’t seem to stop and I don’t know how the company as a whole is continuing to allow this to happen.
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But your theories are true. They will take anyone off the street and hire them as an enrollment counselor. But on the plus side I think this is a great company to work for….just as long as you don’t working in the enrollment department.
CYA: gotta love it
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As for the turnover rate, they’re probably letting it happen for the same reason companies like Verizon and AOL let the turnover rate in their tech support departments happen: it’s easy enough to bring someone in, train them, then get them to work. (I know: I used to work for Verizon’s tech support for internal calls: turnover was huge. Heck, I only stayed there 4 months, and that’s because I needed the money.) The problem is that they’ve focused so much on numbers and training efficiency, they’ve lost sight of the fact experience counts for a lot, and that people != numbers.
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Glad to hear working at UOP is working out for you.
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By the way, just made my way to your site, http://webnv.net — GORGEOUS layout!
Hi – I just wanted to ask you to fix the link to my site… for some reason it comes up as http://uopsucks.com/%22
I think there’s a space after it that you need to delete. My server logs are indicating some errors from people trying to use that link, so if you could fix it I appreciate it greatly!
Fixed. Thanks for the heads up.
I would like to formally thank Ft. Lauderdale for his valuable information regarding his wife working for UOP as an Enrollment Counselor. I was offered a position in this very same job in the West Coast. By some miracle, I was offered another job for another company at the same time. After weighing the benefits, and then reading your rant, I realized that the other job offer was better hands down! Thank you sooooooooooooooooo much for helping me from making a valuable mistake.
On a final note, I would like to suggest that they change the job title to UOP Enrollment Sales Rep!
Jo
Thank God I read this article! I’m supposeto start work at UoP in two weeks as a military enrollment couselor. After reading your article, I don’t think so! I was just offered a position as an office manager with another company, the pay is less, but I wont be working for unethical slime balls
Diamond. Good story. I remember it well.
I am currently a student and an employee, and I have to disagree. I would never do anything unethical and immoral with my students. Not only do I keep my morals in check, but I tutor students and do much more. To say the least, all of the counselors at my campus work their butts off to ensure that every student knows exactly what they are to expect, academically and financially. I would never lie to my students, or sell a degree program. The program works for some, and not for others, just like every other educational institution. Don’t blame the whole college because there are a few campuses that are not as standard as they should be. I can give you a lot of feed back from my own students that have never dealt with the blasphemy that is being presented in this blog. It is kind of like this: Would you blame all of your kids for making mistakes if only one made the mistake.
This company is the best company that I have ever worked for. They care about employees and students. Every day we are looking to find ways to help students. Scholarship workshops, research centers for jobs and much, much more. I have worked for Ford, and many other companies that did not care even close to what this company does for its people. People complain about this school only because not everything went perfectly. People, there are over 375,000 students at this school, you can’t tell me they were smoke screened or “sold” a degree. Do you know that these students do homework for years and spend thousands of dollars. I am sorry, but you do not sell doing homework for years at a time to someone that does not want to do it.
To note, we do not have quotas, for that is against the law. If you do not perform at a certain level in any job, then of course you will be demoted. UOP has high standards, but also likes to have faith in people that truly want to help others. Any job that I have had, in many fields, I have been required to get so much work done. I have been required to improve and to meet company goals. All companies require these and if you work for someone that is not, then that is doomed if they do not have goals.
I have to go meet with a student. There will be more to come.
Kudos
Kristi: Glad to hear you like working there, and very glad to hear you’re keeping a good moral standard. However, the story presented here — as the title states — is one employee’s story.
That’s great. Wonderful, in fact. The part about my blaspheming, I mean. I’ve always wanted to a blasphemer, but never quite had the courage to take on the Catholic church. On a very serious note, you’re absolutely right: the program works for some, not for others. I won’t dispute that at all. However, the facts presented here — at least in the article itself, the comments I cannot vouch for and are the intellectual property of the commenter — are stated as were told to me through various months of complaints. (In fact, I published this story months after my wife’s termination, months after it had been written, because she didn’t want to stir up any trouble. Of course, I’m less averse to stirring up trouble, and more interested in making the truth about our experiences known.)
You obviously don’t work at the same campus my wife did, or at least not with the same people. Count yourself lucky. However, there is one portion of your comment I have to take issue with:
The actual documentation of a quota and the enforcement of one through outside means (“we suggest you get this many or we suggest you find yourself another job”) are two totally different things. (The second is closer to what happened, which pretty much instituted an “unofficial” quota.) Legal recourse here wasn’t much of an option, short of a class action lawsuit on the part of former employees, and frankly I’m not interested in lawsuits. However, if you can cite the law that prevents quotas I would be most appreciative.
Overall, I thank you for your comment. However, the tone of it implies that this story is false (blasphemous, actually), or that the occurrence of this is so rare that it’s not worth mentioning.
If the first, then the only evidence I can present is that which was documented by myself, and the experiences of my wife. You can take this as a factual story, something that actually happened — which does not detract from your point in the least — or you can decry it as a lie and simply ignore, insult it, call it names… whatever. Its your choice. And you can accuse me of lying, but ask yourself why. Why would I lie about this? To settle some vendetta? To make money? Yes, in fact, that must be it! This small-time blog with not much visibility and a total income of about $200/year through the piddly AdSense payments has one article from two years ago threatening to tear down a multi-million dollar operation. How wonderfully evil is that?! Indeed, if I could do such, if I was so expertly in my means, I could think of better things to tear down than UoP.
If the second, then I’m sorry, but no. If one person has been wronged, then it is a duty to report and not ignore it. The story presented here was done so that people are indeed aware that this kind of stuff takes place. Maybe not regularly, but at least at that point it most certainly did. Since no other recourse was really available to us — we couldn’t, at that time, afford to pay a lawyer to carry forth a suit, I did not care to get in a legal spat with the University by going to the press with this (again, no money for lawyers for an almost certain lawsuit), and in Florida, suing your employer is a low-gain proposition anyway — I decided to write about it. Had it been just her experience, I probably wouldn’t have written about it, since if only one person complains against a company, that’s the person’s problem. If MANY complain against a company, that’s the company’s problem. In other words, I’m not the type to complain much. (Read the rest of this blog if you wish to see proof of that, or feel free to contact me at norb@gnorb.net so that we can arrange a personal meeting.) But just as you can cite students with great experiences, I can cite ex-employees with similar experiences to my wife’s. And we could go tete-a-tete all day with this.
Again, glad you’re having a great experience, and even more glad you’re making it great for others. But be honest with yourself and face the fact that not everyone is out to do good, that some people are more concerned with their own gain than with honesty, truth, and ethics. When something goes as wrong as things did here, when these type of people affect the experiences of others, those others will indeed complain. And they have EVERY right to. The onus is on the company to ensure that this does not happen within its confines. If it does, and the company ignores it, then the onus is upon the market to ensure that information on this is made available. And that’s why this story was written.
If I had the chance to testify in court I would elaborate on the AUX9 punishment for not reaching your monthly goals at UOP; the Mormon Connection for Success at UOP; how genetic familial relations gets you to a management position at UOP; that student success ranks significantly below revenue/profit at UOP; and sadly, how my MBA from UOP is considered extremely subpar to other MBAs, and how that places me at a disadvantage in the workforce.
I just wish a lawyer would contact me.
Next in line for the yearly SCAM Award will be places like Quicken & Lending Tree for subprimes; and all banks for excessive derivitives, especially JP Morgan.
I am sorry to hear that your wife was deceived in this way. I must admit that I attended a group session during the interview process which specified this position as a sales position. They were completely honest and upfront about the position, to include how many calls, appointments, and enrollments were to be expected of prospective employees. They made it clear to all applicants in the session I attended that they did not want anyone to misunderstand what this position was about. They admitted that some would thrive in this position while others would not find it to be their type of work. From the very beginning they gave the applicants the chance to jump out if they thought it would not work out for them.
They said that they did this so that they would not be wasting the applicant’s time. The manager admitted to starting jobs in the past thinking that they knew what the position was supposed to be, but as it turned out, was something completely different. This manager did not want this situation in their campus.
Also, on a side note, the campus I work for is HIGHLY selective in who they employ. This is probably why they do not have the problems some of you have experienced. In the end it all boils down to great management. It appears that some of you have fallen victim to poor management. This is a tragedy, but as one previous post stated, all businesses and colleges suffer from poor management somewhere.
I attended a private college in which I did very well, but while I was a student, there were those who did not like the college. Some students only found negative things to say about the college and others loved it. What I noticed in the ones who hated it was that they had a faulty perception of the college or what they thought college was supposed to be. I heard every complaint you could think of under the sun. It is too easy, it is too hard, it is too cheap, it is to expensive, Prof. X is a horrible professor, Prof. X is brilliant, there are to many students, there are not enough students. In the end, the amount you gain is directly linked to how much you apply yourself.
Many times their warped view came from an alumnus or recruiter who painted an image that did not line up with reality. I must admit that there are some of those who do this willingly, but some people are only telling the beautiful story they experienced. I had a great experience at college, and if I shared my testimony with others, they would probably want to attend as well, but I would be a fool if I did not tell them that it is a grueling struggle to make it to graduation.
The fact is, UoP targets a specific audience, just as every school does. They do graduate successful students, but those students are successful because they applied themselves in their studies. This school is not for everyone. It is for their target audience, and for them, it is a good option.
At our campus, retention is equally important as enrollment. Our managers want to see successful graduates, not just numbers. Numbers bring good money, but a good counselor will retain students. Counselors at our campus are encouraged to paint the struggle college sows – and the rewards it reeps. Our managers believe that a prospective student faced with a challenge will accept it and ultimately overcome it.
It truly is a shame that some campuses suffer the problems some of you have encountered, but they are not all the same. Just as professors differ from campus to campus, so do managers. This is one employee’s story.
Hey, Some Guy;
I’m happy to hear that your experience has been a positive one. And you’re absolutely, 100% correct when you say it’s all about the management. Had that been positive then I think none of the rest would have happened, even if my wife would have eventually resigned. (She finds herself now in a somewhat similar position, but under completely different circumstances, and who now enjoys her job.)
Hey Gnorb,
Ethics aren’t breached at my campus, but there are definitely quotas. They disclosed up front that this job was a job using sales “skills.” I charged out to my cubicle after my two week training course to make my 100 calls per day. I average 500 calls per week, but my application numbers are not where they want me to be. After nearly 90 days on the job, I have been subjected to weekly one-on-one meetings where I am threatened with my job. Since I am a temporary employee, (that is how they do it now), I can be terminated without recourse. In every meeting with my manager, I have been told that I have habits that will be impossible to correct. They want double digit enrollments by the end of 90 days. If you can’t make that, you might as well kiss the job goodbye. I wish I had known this before I took the plunge. My blood pressure is sky high, I am gaining weight from comfort eating, and I am miserable. Not to mention, I am going to be out of work. This is not the dream job I imagined.
As I read this blog and the comments that have been posted over the course of two years, it seems that many things with management and UOP have improved. It is unfortunate that some employees have had an unpleasant experience, but here is my opinion on it…
From personal experience I see that UOP implements hours of training and development for their staff. For an organization who invests such a large amount of money in the training and development of their staff it only makes sense that they intend to staff a team of productive employees and a pipeline of leaders.
Granted, this job is not for everyone. And it’s understood that employees who do not succeed in their position with UOP would become stressed and overwhelmed, however it just wouldn’t make sense for a business to continue to invest in the training and development of an employee who is not successful in the position.
UOP is a private FOR PROFIT university. It’s no secret that they make a lot of money by providing an attainable option for a working adult to earn their degree.
Imagine the time and money they would be losing if they kept ALL employees who came in and put effort, but did not reap a successful outcome.
It only takes a couple of months for an employee and an organization to take notice that this may or may not be the position for them. If it is recognized, then why continue to lose money?
I believe UOP has excellent training, developement, monitoring and controlling tools in place and I don’t believe I’ve ever been happier in any other job I ever had.
I recognized that my position (which is not a counselor) was going to be challenging from the very beginning. I know this because I asked the appropriate questions to yield me the answers I need to make an informed decision when I considered accepting the position.
Perhaps in the future one major question your wife (or anyone for that matter) can ask when being interviewed for a job is:
How will my performance be evaluated?
It makes all the difference to interview the company as the company is interviewing you and find out what you need to know.
What will be expected of me on a daily, weekly, monthly basis?
What are the outcomes if I do not meet expectations?
What can I expect if I consistently exceed expectations?
Just as there are consequences, there are also rewards. And it’s only logical that a business would take the actions necessary to move forward in finding the employee that would best fit their needs.
*shrug* nothing personal on the employee.
I know I babbled throughout this comment and I realize it may not make any sense. I tried my best to not speak of your wife’s situation in particular because I can understand that her experience (whether it be with UOP or any other company) is valid and should be heard.
However, as I come across these stories I have trouble finding personal ownership and although I understand it not to be true, the experience begins to sound as if UOP took target and the employee became a victim.
Would anyone honestly believe that UOP targets individuals and hire them only to watch them fail?
Would you hire a file clerk who couldn’t file?
When I considered UoP for my MBA and wanted more information, I submitted an email to their primary website. I got a call back within 15 minutes from an education counselor about 15 miles away from me. Her name is Kathy and she works at the St. Petersburg, Florida campus. She answered all of my questions honestly and easily and transitioned from counseling to sales very smoothly and professionally. I knew what she was doing but couldn’t find any reason based on he answers she provided (I was checking her answers online at the Department of Education and Higher Learning Commission websites while talking). I had already done considerable research on various schools before making the call. One thing she did not tell me was that the school was not AACSB accredited. It wouldn’t have made much difference. Most employers don’t care, they just want regional accreditation – but I think her “honesty” level would have increased with me had she made that revelation up front. She assisted me over the next several days in a variety of ways getting answers and guiding me to what I needed to get in. The bottom line was that I was signed up and in school in three weeks. She calls me occasionally to see how I’m doing and when I see her at the campus she always stops and says hello to me. She works her tail off, I could see that, to get folks enrolled. It did not feel like high pressure sales to me, but she never really had the opportunity. I was ready to go back to school. Her behavior and demeanor were always highly professional and I have never had any sense that she doesn’t absolutely love her job.
I think in your case, the only real problem would be that if the original folks hiring her didn’t tell her it was a sales job. UoP has a right to conduct itself like a business, they’re not claiming to be anything else. As far as I’m concerned, they’re a business providing a valuable commodity. I’ve been satisfied with my education and consider it to be comparable to any mid-line MBA program at any public, not-for-profit school.
Question: Was Ryan, the manager she liked, in on her initial interview? I would re-consider how much I thought of Ryan as a manager if it was he who initially failed to make clear the nature of the work. Perhaps there’s more to the story of how he didn’t last as manager than your wife was privy to. Just a thought.
Best wishes to you and your wife in your future career endeavors, I wish you both the best of luck!
@Caernarvon: “the only real problem would be that if the original folks hiring her didn’t tell her it was a sales job.” That’s from where most of the issues stemmed. That her boss was a jerk wasn’t anything surprising: lots of people are jerks, and a few of them will end up being your boss. Its just part of life. But they never once revealed to her it was a sales job during the interview process, and in fact hadn’t told her until her numbers were deemed as being too low. (Surprise!)
Also, the hiring manager wasn’t Ryan. He did the best he could with what the university gave him, at least from what we could tell. And you’re probably right: there likely WAS more to the story. However, I can’t help but wonder what that is given the level of politicking, snide and rudeness that took place after he left.
Thanks for your well wishes, and the same be to you.
I am glad that I read this information. I applied for this same position and they did not hire me. But get this, I obtained more than one degree from this university and they don’t want to hire someone who has attended, and sent them so many other students while enrolled. I will never recommend them again! Everyone I see, I will tell them to attend another university, but whatever they do, don’t attend this place.
Maybe your wife should have quit and stopped trying to rip people off.
Clearly, an institution that has to use high pressure sales to recruit students is not a place the has the best interests of the students in mind. I don’t feel sorry for you or your wife; I am, however, very sad for the people whom your wife led down the wrong path.
Actually, Andrew, one of the reasons she was fired was BECAUSE she didn’t rip people off. She didn’t tell them, “Don’t pay your electricity bill, instead pay for this class,” or “don’t worry if you get into even deeper debt.” Instead she actually tried to work with them, and told them the truth: that if they were going to be in a better position next semester, then go ahead and wait until next semester. (Everything with her manager was “now, now, now–there is no later.”)
By the way, her ex-manager was fired for using the forceful tactics she did, as well as the incredibly high rate of turnaround.
Yeah, this story does not surprise me. This would explain why I went through so many counselors there in the two years I attended school online. And, half the time, they didnt even know the program information adequetly. Biggest waste of time, and academic regret. Anybody else looking to enroll, do some research before you go to U. of P!
What UOP charges for in tuition is just absurd. For all that money people spend; the education/diploma is next to worthless…
It’s Tragic.
Ok, KRISTI, why don’t you drink some more of the UOP Kool Aid?! UOP brings in enrollment counselors and tells them it is such a great job and that you will make so much money if you enroll a ton of students. And there are some people that really buy into that and think it is the greatest job ever.
I am also a former employee of UOP, and when I was hired I was not told at all that it was a sales job. Then halfway through my first day of training my manager walks in with a performance matrix.
UOP has performance matrixes for enrollment counselors. If you are making your quotas, great, you could get up to a 43% increase in pay every 6 months. If you do not meet your quotas every 6 months, you can HAVE YOUR PAY CUT 10%!!!!!!!!
You have to call through a bunch of leads that have been called a million times and try and talk people into going to school (even if they have told you no several times). And you are told “these people asked for the information, there is a reason they want to go back to school!”
You are suckered into believing that you are really changing these people’s lives, that you are doing something for the greater good. In reality, you are earning money for the University.
I understand that the University is a for-profit business, but they should just tell you this upfront. Call these people sales reps, not enrollment counselors, and stop suckering people into thinking they can acheive unrealistic goals.
I would never suggest working here. There are so many double standards. Management will tell you that they are there to help you if you are not performing. But in reality, if you are not pulling in good numbers you are the scum of the earth. But if your numbers are great, you are allowed to walk around and be as unprofessional as you want.
Having said that, I did finish my degree there. I do have to say that the education is good. You will get what you put into the program.
Oh, and another bit of information…John Sperling and his son hold 99% of the voting stock in Apollo Group…so that money really is just theirs.
I am crrently employeed by the UofP in the Northwest part of the US. I am on administrative leave today for not meeting my numbers. the funny thing is that the only number I have not reached is my enrollment quota. I have a open investigation with the department of education as of this morning, because it is against the law to give a counselor a raise or fire them based upon # of enrollment. I have been employed at the current campus for 2 years. I worked at a differant campus before this and was way happier. The campus I am at now is very set on numbers. My numbers are all in the meets area except my enrollements per month. Kind of funny how you can be fired for not forcing someone into school? UofP offers a good educaton, but they DO SELL SCHOOL! They also are breaking the law right now with what they are doing and if not careful my current campus could be messing things up for the whole University! This is not good and I find it sad that they teach people how to push people into school. Anyone who works there knows about RAMPSR and Probing for Motivation. The path of future with and futrue without, past without and all the other methods of pushing the student. I hope that our campus leaders are fired and that they bring someone in with morals and true concern for our students!
It is amazing what they did to Brian, I mean Ryan.
I did not know that Mona, I mean Monal, I mean Lona got fired.
I would suggest that your wife learn how to listen, this information is definitely given in training as well as in the interview, this is not a secret!….find that insulting? Probably but I found your post insulting as many others I’m sure have who did not choose to “jump on the bandwagon” with lack of information.
Let’s face it…as you said…you were not there, never a part of the university…in anyway….so how is it that you know?
This is exactly how misinformation is spread. Think Wikipedia’s scandall. Anyone can post, doesn’t matter if that person is educated in the topic or not. I would say you, Gnorb, are not.
Yeah, Monal has been fired but we never got the announcement.
We all go thru the same thing as uop employees. The promise of money. The 12, 13 hour shifts. The hard work. The tears. And even if the students drop and owe uop, the employees don’t get paid. After a few years of breaking my back to care for my family, I’m gonebabygone.
Great post and so true. I withdrew within my first week, once it became obvious I was not actually going to be educated. Most of my classmates couldn’t form a sentence. Seriously.
That jump started my research. Yes, I should have done that before signing up..oh well. I found that some places don’t even recognize their degrees. I called my dream employers. They do not view degrees from Phoenix as highly as others. I was out of there.
That’s when my horror story started with the Financial Department, and then with the Financial Grievance Committee. After a ridiculous amount of time, effort, some really long and scathing letters, appealing every dismissal I got, and pursuing them like my life depended on it, they finally apologized and corrected their mistake. Do you know of any other school that has a Financial Grievance Committee? I don’t.
I consider myself lucky. I am now pursuing my degree locally, and still have the convenience of online classes. Had I spent all my time and money getting my degree from Phoenix just to find that it would not stack up to another one I could have gotten for a lot less money, well, that would have been far more depressing.
Thanks for posting about your wife’s experience. I see it was a long time ago now, but unfortunately not much has changed. I hope she is much happier in her current job!
Thanks for your story. I worked for UOP, attended UOP and know that you are telling the truth! There were even threats of violence at my campus and my superiors did nothing about it – all they cared about was that I enroll more students and work until I was so stressed that I was physically ill. I did have some good instructors but I transferred to another University to finish my degree for far less expense and far more credibility. I also transferred to another position in admissions because I am honest and I do care about my students and I genuinely want to help people. I was appalled by the manner in which UOP zealots are conditioned to believe the “hype” until something bad happens to them. For some people, the programs are sufficient for their career path and for others they are not. I do think each individual has to make their own evaluation but the way the company is run is ridiculous. The San DIego campus in California is insane, the management is completely incompetent and everyone knows about all the employee lawsuits that have gone on. No one should ever have to suffer through working for that company. Now UOP has a lot of competition and they cannot get away with as much of their baloney as they used to. I always encourage my friends to seek their education elsewhere because I cannot compromise my integrity by supporting an institution that fosters illegal working practices and covers up everything in order to attempt to maintain their accreditation. UOP is going to have to do some fancy dancing to not lose their accreditation this time as they have gotten in trouble with their stockholders and have misrepresented their financial statements. The way they treat their employees is gross and disgusting. They hire low-level and uneducated people to sit at the front desk and then expect quality people to want to attend their school. The best decision I ever made was to leave and get out from under the thumb of the unethical and oppressive tactics. But karma is a real thing and what goes around comes around…UOP is suffering through a lot of bad karma these days. I now work for a reputable school and can sleep good at night knowing my students are getting a solid education and that I am finishing my own degree with a reliable University with a long-standing reputation. Thanks for sharing.
Regards,
Liz
I just dropped out of UOP the other day because of its….well, it sucks. The instructors couldn’t give a good god damn about you. My IT instructor gave me some of the worst advice I have ever heard the other day when I had a question for her.
I originally wanted to pursue a career in criminal justice but I have a record so I could never work for the police department, and I know this because I already tried. So when this guy Tony called and I told him that, he talked me into doing something else. I like computers so I thought I would take the IT course but it is not what I had expected. Also, how are you supposed to actually learn anything in this field when all you do is read, read, read. In the IT field you encounter real life situations where you would need some hands-on training. And I’m not stupid when it comes to this stuff, I can set up a computers and networks and keep em running. However, when I asked my “instructor” for some advice on the best way to take in all this reading she responded by saying something like “Dave, you are still early in your IT courses, maybe you can get some old computers and set them up.” What the fuck kind of advice is that. First off, whose ass do I pull a bunch of computers out of, and second, I can hook a damn computer, who can’t. So, I know that I am gonna be paying money out the ass for no good reason because I didn’t learn a damn thing in that school, but I did land me a job making around 40k a year which is twice what I am making now and I don’t need no school, just the skills that I already possess.
My husband just turned in his resignation after going through exactly what your wife went through. The University is “all about numbers” and could careless about their students, or their employees. My husband is someone who wanted to take care of the students and had a difficult time with the ethics being displayed at the University, so we talked things over and decided he was just going to give a 2 week notice. Now it’s a little scary because he does not have another job lined up (was kind of tough to try to do interviewing when they frown on taking time off and the hours are 8-5). So hopefully he will find a company that is honest and is run ethically.
Hi,
I wanted to thank you for telling your story about UOP. I also want to thank everyone else for their input. I received a call today from the UOP recruiter (my fiance sent her my resume). She was wanted to interview me for the enrollment counselor job. I started asking details about it and the recruiter was honest. She said I would be making 80-100 calls per day to students that had already expressed interest in UOP, so no cold calling. She said there would be some work on Saturdays and having to stay late some nights during the week. I’ve been in the corporate world for awhile now (I’m 33) and the more I listened about this position, it sounded like a cust service job or a call center. I am so glad I found this site, it has helped me to avoid a big mistake. I went ahead and canceled my “interview” with the recruiter.
Hi, I went for one 5 week session to UOP. Um, now I owe them a ton of money, because the financial aid department screwed up my financial aid, and told me I couldn’t attend the next 5 week session until they got my stuff fixed. So I faxed everything to them several times, and I have the documentation to prove it. So then they tell me that I owe them $6k before I can attend further classes. Clearly if I had that kind of money laying around, then I wouldnt need any financial aid. So that turned me off, and i said nevermind, because at that point I decided that I would just go to my local college. So now I have a collection agency harrasing me for $6k, and I really want to bring a lawsuit on them. My future father in law is an attorney, and a really good one at that, and I am seriously considering it. I am so pi$$ed.
The reason they do not call the position a “sales rep” is because it is against the rules that have to do with awarding federally subsidized student loans. Hopefully the federal government will come to its senses and yank the UoP’s ability to award subsidixed student loans.
You see, the real core of their business model is that students qualify for larger federally-backed loans when they seek to attend out-of-state public universities (or private universities). By pricing tuition towards the higher end of the maximum amount that a student can borrow, UoP has to accomplish only a few simple things:
1) Get students enrolled
2) Keep students enrolled
3) Manage operating costs
If they can accomplish these three basic things, then operating profit is a guarantee. This is why so many “online universities” have popped-up in recent years. Doing it all online allows them to manage the costs. All they need to do is get young, impressionable minds to enroll.
Speak to some of the instructors and see what kind of pressures THEY are under. Since the business model is to keep students enrolled, ask some of them what happens if one of their students were to receive a poor grade? Well, if this teacher is responsible for a student’s exit from the UoP, how long do you think they will remain employed? Not long.
“University Girl”
He knows this because of his WIFE!!
And nearly all posts are negative against UOP so he has some defense on the topic. You seem rather dense are you too a scam artist of UOP??
LOL—-MUHAHAHA
I worked for the University of Phoenix financial aid processing center in Tempe (ACS/Apollo Financial services) for almost a year. We basically moniter students financial situations and we call them and accept calls from them regarding their financial aid. Basically, we do the dirty work. The finance counselors never return calls from students, and the enrollment counselors rally hard to get people signed up for class, don’t moniter their financial situations at all, and then stop answering phone calls when the students realize that things aren’t right.
GOOD LUCK trying to get financial aid if you didn’t sign up with selective service, have loans in default, file your taxes as head of household, have an unusual marital situation/status or are separated but not legally divorced, etc…
Also, if you call the 1800-921-1904 number for disbursement information and you’re an online student, they make you tell the students that you don’t have access to their disbursement information. We do have access, we’re just not allowed to give it out to specifically online students (some nonsensical reason). GOD, I could go on about how awful and unethical this company is for YEARS…
Don’t work here. Don’t go here. Ever.
UOP is the most moraly corupt company I have ever been employeed with. I don’t know how they’ve gotton away with the way they treat their employees or their students. I work as a finance counselor, and I am going to report them to the Dept. of Education. We too, are on a performance matrix where we can have our pay deducted. So even as a finance counselor, your really a sales and a collections agent. I spend all day calling and harassing my students for money. The special choosen ones don’t have to make the numbers, like everyone ekse does because they spend all day kissing ass. As for the rest of us this job is hell. Everytime I cut a student a break, or work out an arrangement that is best for the student It makes your 66+ and 91+(balances over 66, and 91 days old) look bad, and your superiors are pissed. When students drop a class, it ruins our retention which also hurts your matrix. So basicly if you work with your students, you are screwing your numbers and risk getting your pay deducted. My students love me, because they can tell I care about them, but I am constantly in a moral bind working here. As a finance counselor I should be able to advise students according to what is best for them, and not according to what will make my numbers look the best. Due to the amount of blatent discrimination that has been going on lately, some of us are moving forward with legal action. If any of you feel you have been discriminated against, please email me at takeastand09@gmail.com with your situation and if you are a student or employee. They cannot be allowed to go on treating their students and employees like this. The movement starts today…
Worked in Silicon Valley campus for a few years before, then up through the IPO. The company does not practice what it preaches, and the game show host they had as a regional VP at the time was a two faced lummox who bent rules regularly.
Totally corrupt.
I absoultely hate the UoP. As a 2 years student about to graudate with my BS I tell everyone to avoid them at all costs. They have messed up my financial aid no less than 4 times in 2 years and they have turned over my academic counselor 3 times in 4 years. They are absoultely horrible and demand me to send them things that just are not applicable. AVOID UOP AT ALL COSTS!!!!
Thank you for this blog. UOP had the worst standards ever. I started working there in 05 and I worked for a manager who had a major power trip. He was also sexist and racist and made many inappropriate comments to me and to others. When I spoke to his higher up I was told that ‘ he is a new employee; this is hard for him.’ This does not warrant someone asking a female if she has male or female applicants coming in and told me on many occasions to ‘flirt to convert’ a line i will not forget. He also asked me why muslims are terrorists. He told me in many meetings that I will not reach my goals and attempted to dissect external non-existent issues I had to complain to management who again told me he is new and under pressure. He then had a personal issue with me and took away any leads I had and made me work with old leads which did not allow me to make my quotas. My education benefit was revoked without following the clearly written guidelines to be implemented first prior to using that as a last resort. I could not take this level of disrespect and abuse any longer and decided to quit. It was so sad that everything UOP teaches in their courses is a complete contradiction to what is happening behind the scenes. I put everything in writing myself and plan on taking legal action. I do not want to give a penny to an organization that treats people so bad, tricks people into thinking they NEED an education to accomplish anything and have the most awful managment ever. thank god i am no longer there and i feel sad for the people working there thinking they are getting their edcucation paid for. Rockville, MD campus sucks!!!! I suggest everyone take legal action where needed.
I currently work for UOP and wish very much that I had found this site before I excepted the position here. I’ve been here for a little over 6 months. Everything that your wife said is TRUE!!! UOP is very careful in the way they phase things so that what they are doing is legal. But hitting their numbers are all they care about. And if you don’t your pay will decrease. If you do than your pay will increase just a little not even as much as they make it sound. If I have to relate my position as an enrollment counselor to anything else I would say it’s very similar to that of a sleazy car salesperson. I have been told to tell students whatever they have to hear to enroll them. And if students want a program that we do not offer I am supposed to convince them that what we have is better. For all those who have been sold on the UOP illusion of changing students lives WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!
There are better places to go to school and better places to work than UoP.
I got a job at UoP in January of this year. I was out of work for 4 months before that job came along. I figured why not, the economy sucks and I have to take care of my family. We then moved 300 miles to Phoenix so I can work at there main online military center as an online advisor. Things were going great during training until I found out it was a sales job. They will tell all new employees, “It’s not a sales job!” but naturally it is. You have numbers you MUST hit or exceed every month or your mediocre pay gets reduced. They avoid having to say you have a “quota” by saying you have a “matrix” to follow. Anyway, Things were going ok for a while until I came in from a 3 day weekend that just so happened to be my sons b-day. I worked for 2 hours until my supervisor said his boss wanted to see us. Now I knew I didn’t do too well my first couple of months but I was getting stronger at my sales…..I mean enrolling skills, when we got into his office he stated that an investigation was done on me becuase I was calling too many numbers out side of there system. I listened without saying anything. When he was done I asked to see the paperwork of the investigation that was leading to my termination. He refused then told me I had to leave NOW! On the way out, my sup said he had no idea and actually gave a reccomendation for a new job. Bottom line, never work for these ppl, they are crooks. Tuition is waaaaaay too much. If you have to go online, Kaplain, cheap tuition. To the OP, I feel your pain.
I have attended the University of Phoenix online campus for the last 2 years. I wish I never signed up. The financial counselors are condescending, they care only about getting money, no flexibility at all. Don’t expect to be treated like a person, expect to be treated like just another number. Take my advice, DO NOT attend this “University.” The teachers are also useless and confused, as if they have never used a computer before, so how can they run an online classroom? Save your money, go somewhere else.
I previously worked for the UoP for 2 years at a small campus in the northeast. I also took classes to get my Masters. When I started it was fun, I did know it was a sales job but soon found out that the matrix and the constant policy changes designed to keep the numbers coming in and salaries low were complete bullshit.
The propaganda and regurgitated crap that came from our campus director and upper managers really started to get old after about 6 months. By the way the first 6 months my matrix was 4 per month and then it went to 6. After a year I was to hit 7 per month just to maintain my shitty salary.
UoP is a complete sham, the tuition is overpriced, the instrutors are a freakin joke, and finance and academic counselors have over 500 students to call everyweek.
I did get my Master through them and paid nothing for it other than time and effort but the company as a whole has a big big problem with promoting people beyond their compatency levles which is way there are so many ridiculous policy changes.
Anyone who reads this can take it from me, UoP sucks for both employee and student alike and what happened to uopsucks.com
I start my job as an “enrollment counsellor” Nov. 2nd, recruiting for the online mid-west division in Tempe, AZ.
I was referred by someone who loves the job, loves the co-workers and higher-ups and had nothing to say but great things. I do believe that jobs are what you make of them, and that managment plays a big part in your overall happiness.
I am leaving my current job of 6+ years in retail/sales managment to work for UoP and I’m excited. I know it’s a sales job and I can sell snow to eskimos and not be unethical. I understand some managment at other campuses had bad morals and business practices, but when you’re in a sales job the point is to get to people to BUY what you’re SELLING whether they need it or not.
Overall I guess it just doesn’t bother me that much that I’m basically “selling” education- big deal. They start you out at $33k, which is almost $9k more than what I make annually now, they pay your tuition and have great benefits. And when your heart is no longer in your current line of work, the only thing you can do is move forward- so here I go.
I’ll be back to update this story =)
I was signed up as a student even though my guidance counselor knew I didn’t have a computer capable of using the site. This was in mid June when he contacted me. I told him I wanted to wait until October to start classes and he gave me this whole “limited time offer” deal on free books if I signed up by a certain date. Stupid me, instead of researching the school like I’m doing now, I signed up and started classes. Needless to say I am no longer attending classes at that overpriced, subpar college. Save yourself money and go to a traditional school and get a real education.
I just read the comments above. I loved what new Job said! I felt a huge relief. I am very sales orriented and have no problem working long hr’s and have a call center background. I feel that work is what you make of it. I have concerns about the classes after reading the above comments, but I have also been to school and the 4 years I was at an institute I saw issues with bad and good teachers. Schools are a business and there a good one at that. I think the idea that students can use this flex schedule and online classes is a plus. I also think that anyone in a sales job whould be on there toes when it comes to numbers, because at anytime you may need to jump to another job. For me I could use the money and considering how hard it is these days to have a 40hr week … I don’t mind staying late to make sure my family gets what they need. If I had the money to work less and spend more time with my family sure I would, but I don’t. I feel the school does have many classes to offer and to a person looking to start this job, please don’t let negitive comments change your excitement. The people above had no sales experience and didn’t sound like they even liked selling anything. UoP good school … and exciting job!
I would like perspective on how much past employees where paid for training and how often you do get paid on salary at UOP?
I am currently a student with UOP and thinking back when I enrolled back in May of this year there were a lot of signals. For instance when going for information I found myself enrolled. They have you fill out a student loan form and FaFSa form. I thought that was a little strange since the last time I attended school. Student loans are supposed to be optional. Well I did it because I recently lost my job and had been thinking about returning to school. I started and was told the excess funds would be sent to me. They reel the people in with the excess funds. I have been attending for six months now and will transfer to a local college. My academic counselor has never contacted me to discuss my progress. My financial counselor plays phone tag with me for weeks. I will not suggest this school to anyone I know. I really hope there are no problems when I transfer. I am glad I found this site.
if you want to work and have a safe and less stressfull life dont think about university of phoenix , managers take a big commission on every student enrollment counseler enroll , enrollment counselor get pay cut if they dont meet thier number up to 10 % , and they can get increase if they have enough numbers .
training with uop teach enrollment counselors , and have them beleive that they change lifes , into a good way , but they put people in debt , what kind of education that you have to pay 655$ per credit for masters and 550$ per credit for bachelors , keep probing , keep asking why , take ownership, take charge , beleive on what you do ,be positive , show the student the value of education , in scale from 1 to 10 where do you put your education ? where do you see yourself in 5 years from now without a degree ? and where do you see youself in 5 years from now with a degree ? who do you know that may be interseted in having a conversation with me ? how you ganna be paying for your school ? well there is FA , hold student acountable , creat urgency , thats the policy of uop and thats what all the EC , FC, AC doing every single day , every day they have a conference about how to overcome objections and how to close a sale ,and have people sing up for uop programs , just an advise before you think on working or studing with uop , do yourself a favor and think not twice but think very carefull about it , its all about money and money only .
I currently work for UoP, and all the managers talk about is BioS (Best interest of the student). However with all of the rules that you spoke about as well as the rules that my campus sets, it’s more like Best Interest of the STOCKHOLDERS!
I appreciate everyone sharing their experiences working with, for, and attending school at UoP. I figured I would share mine as well.
I just finished my Bachelor’s degree in Psychology and my experience was very positive all around. I had one stupid/lazy teacher, but I think that’s decent out of a 2 1/2 year period and can occur in a classroom at any college. Yes, the school is expensive, but it was worth it for me because I have epilepsy and prefer to drive as little as possible. To work and back is enough.
My Enrollment, Academic, and Financial Aid Counselor were all very, very helpful and easy to reach. I am still in contact with my Academic and Financial Aid Counselor despite the fact that one was given a promotion and one moved on to another job (he didn’t care for working at UoP).
My teachers were excellent and thought-provoking. I say this humbly, but I am an intelligent person. I wrote at least one APA paper per week, did discussion questions, sometimes worksheets (which sometimes grew into mini-essays), and participated in classroom discussions. I remained very involved and through the tremendous amount of research I did using UoP’s library, I learned a great deal. Despite the fact that I’ve graduated, I still have access to that library and its scholarly journals.
I realize my experiences aren’t the same as many of yours, but I thought it appropriate to share. Thanks!
I completed the Doctorate of Philosophy in Higher Education Administration program at UofP a few months back. It was hard, challenging, and fulfilling. Upon graduating, I applied a few places and was called in to interviews and was asked specifically why I chose UofP. I have my personal reasons why, but I am happy to report that I accepted a position to be the Dean of Academics for the University of Maine, starting in February 2010!
Anyway, ever notice how forums are mostly people ranting about something negative? Then another person relates to a comment they read and pipes in their two cents. I just think it is funny how we are such a conforming society, now just with more technology to express how bad our lives suck.
It is pretty simple in my opinion. If you don’t like your job and it isn’t personally a good fit for your life’s outlook, then quit. Move on and learn from the experience. It sounds like there is a common theme in the postings. “I was mislead and the job sucked”. Boy, I wonder how many other job/industries that applies to, haha! “Join the military, the benefits are great!” or “Become an insurance salesman and make a ton of money!” or “Become a car salesman and help people get the vehicle they need!”. Come on people, certain jobs are not for everybody. If you don’t like your job, then quit. Find a new job that you are happy with and one that gives you a certain sense of balance or belonging and hopefully your life will be so fulfilled you won’t spend precious moments complaining and ranting on the internet.
One more thing, if you were or are a student at UofP, good for you! You probably work 40 hours a week and have other obstacles which prevented you from enrolling in a cheaper traditional university. You went with what was convenient and worked for you and your life’s balance. This will teach you how to manage balance, trust me! Education is what you get out of it. We’re all guilty of not applying ourselves 100%, regardless of what school you attend or attended. If everybody really, and I mean really tried 100% and had no obstacles outside of school, then we should all have close to 4.0 GPAs.
Anyway that was my rant. But what do I know, I’m only a doctor…
@Laura L: Congratulations. I wish you all the best.
@JK: Glad you had a good experience, JK, and congratulations on the job. (And despite what follows, I am quite serious.)
I appreciate your sharing your opinions and where you’re coming from. However, realize that while you may not have ever had to do this yourself, sometimes people keep jobs they hate because they need the money. (Example: at that point I had just lost my job and we were somewhere I wouldn’t hesitate to label “the slums”.) Doesn’t mean they’re not looking for other options, doesn’t mean they’re lazy, doesn’t mean anything other than that’s where they’re at, during that point in life. It just means they’d rather keep a roof over their heads than be out on the street, or doing something they hate more (if that’s the other option). (Yes, how you react to a situation is entirely within your control, but the situation you find yourself in often isn’t; this affects the viability of options. Sartre 101, I know.)
Despite your doctorate in philosophy, apparently you didn’t notice a few small details. If it had, you would’ve seen that the student experience and the employee experience are two vastly different things. (Since the student experience is form whence you draw your conclusions on this particular matter, it’s likely to be a good one. Basic marketing psychology: people will defend where they spend their money. Just ask any Apple fanboy.) You might have also noticed the date on this post–almost 5 years old. A lot can change in that time, even a company’s practices and culture. Nevertheless, instead of being dismissive of someone’s honest opinions and with a broad brush painting these comments as simple, negative banter, you might have inquired about whether the comments had any factual merit. In this comment, at least, you’ve shown yourself to be judgmental and didactic.
But what do I know. I’m only a writer, and appeals to authority don’t impress me.
What are you complaining about!!!! You specifically stated on the beginning of this story that your wife did not have a job. Did UOP give her a job??? YES!!! People work for companies everyday that they do not like….QUIT, if you are not happy!! Nobody forced her to stay employed..it was HER choice! I can’t stand people who complain about working, be glad you have money coming in, if you can’t take the pressure leave, but don’t write a blog because you can’t handle the work load..please, spare me you pitty party story. Nobody forced her to stay working there. Your just pissed she couldn’t handle the work load. GET OVER IT!!!!!!
Can anyone tell me what the finacial counselor position entails? I would really like to know the job responsibilities and function as I am interviewing for this position shortly. Please do not tell me it is sales. I have heard pros and cons about working for UOP but I need further detail.
I have also worked at UOP (more recently I just left about a month or so ago). I think the experience really varies by campus. I have worked at the headquarters for online division and my experience there was wonderful. I was also not told when I first started that it was a sales job but working there I was not pressured to enroll students who did not want to be in school and morale was very high- there it wasn’t all about the numbers. However once I transferred to a ground campus, my experience was the complete opposite. We were pressured to enroll any student, even if we knew they clearly did not want to enroll. Being a genuine counselor like I was at the headquarters was not cutting it for the managers and I was forced to change my “techniques”. Even though we are not supposed to be misleading, they would definitely want us to bend the truth. I was not comfortable doing this and so my numbers went down. Once that happened, I stopped getting “leads”, and overtime was “encouraged” by saying “if you cant meet your enrollment numbers then you need to take advantage of the overtime offered to do so.” (overtime was only offered to everyone once people complained about the overtime criteria and not getting paid for working over the 9 hr day). After additional training and being advised to say things that I was not comfortable in saying, I decided to leave the company. It really is a shame because I do believe the coursework is great and rigorously structured (I completed my Master’s there) and I don’t believe my experience at the one ground campus reflects the company as a whole (as I said before my experience in the online division was great and I really loved it there). I think they just need to keep a closer eye on the practices of the different campuses because I know that it can be a great job and I know that I really helped students that otherwise would not have gone to school. If I had stayed at the online division location I would still be working there today because they really go out of their way to appreciate employees and to enroll the students that really want to be in school for a life change.
Never worked for UoP, but I don’t see it ever happening. Hearing stories of former employees and learning a bit more about their business practices certainly makes things a lot more clear. My fiance and I were both really fresh and naive about the entire schooling process on a collegiate level.
We are both poor (the economical climate in Michigan is one of the worst in the nation). We are hardly scratching by on 9,000 a year. Needless to say we feel we were given a round around by UoP. We had both informed people we spoke to that we were in no financial state to pay any money back and that we were interested in a Pell Grant. Neither of us had no info about the Pell except that we had relatives who used them to go to local schools and never had to pay anything back.
At no point were we told that a Pell Grant only covers so much money, nor were we ever told how much credit hours were. What were were, was advised to file for A Pell and a Loan, and when we reminded them that we had no interest in paying back money we were told “don’t worry” and “the pell grant should cover everything”. We deserve some of the blame for not understanding the system better, but I am relatively certain that we were lied to.
In our ignorance (mind you, ignorance fueled by the claims of the people there to help us) we just assumed we were good to go, our grant would cover us. Once of course we realized this not to be the case we dropped our classes right away, but not before we built up nearly 40,000 combined in loans to Wells Fargo.
Whenever we received a disbursement check and we had a question about them we would call them, REFER TO THEM AS PELL GRANT CHECKS and not once did they ever correct us about us, letting us know that we had piles and piles of student loans building up.
I have no problem admitting that I wide eyed about this process, that I should have dug deeper, but I was under the impression that these people were here because they knew what would be best for us and our situation.
I have been through it too. I had a three page report on my computer about the practices that were not compliant that my manager was doing or telling me to do. Everything from lying to student, to intimidation to get your numbers up. I had a family emergency to attend and was not granted personal leave so wa-la the report is gone. That’s that.
Gnorb…it’s disturbing to hear you and your wife had to experience that. Apparently, as others stated, she was under poor management. However, my experiences seem like day compared to hers. I enrolled in ’08 and have experienced a rigorous, thought provoking, and difficult program. I’ve stressed out often because of the amount of work I have to complete on top of working full time and trying to spend time with my family. I’ve had horrible learning teams and uninterested instructors as well as awesome learning members and instructors who push me toward my full potential and stimulate me. This school has been no different than the traditional state college I attended in terms of the method in which instruction is provided. However, I have never seen any school who offers the level of service UOP does. At other institutions, you stand in line for hours only to be told vague answers, you have the wrong paperwork, or they can’t assist you. My counselors are always thorough, kind, and informative. After a couple years of attendance one told me I should apply for a position and today I am a finance counselor. In my first few weeks of training, I was in awe of how extensive a counselor, or any employees workload is…I’m talking 120~ 500 students per counselor. This is by far the most difficult job I’ve had. Each decision I make has to be in the best interest of the student and speaking for my team, I can say we all have that in the forefront of our minds. We train weekly on new p &p as well as meet monthly with directors to revisit what we’ve learned and how to apply that to enhance the student experience. I cry sometimes when I hear some of the misfortunes of my students and rejoice when they walk across the stage because we’ve been through years of struggle together and I understand where they are coming from as I’ve played both sides of the fence. I’m sure other schools may develop this type of rapport but in my opinion UOP sets the standard. It’s unfortunate that not all personnel have this same level of dedication and drag the rest of the company through the mud.
I have read all the posts that every one has submitted and let me tell you all something as a confirmation. I was an employee for 2 yrs “counselor” here is what I see as a problem, the university is run by a bunch of people with no outside work experience which is funny how they sell that line to the “stds” “oh your life experience will waive some the testing” what a laugh. The mangers that I have worked for said all the same crap that your wife has heard and to take it a step further I was told to enroll std’s in programs that they did not want and to tell them that it would do the same thing for them. I could go on and on the UOP standards operating procedures are nothing less than shady, slimy and bordering against the law, the 12 harbors rule prevents them from doing certain practices but they buy time to get their numbers in.
I am a recent graduate of UOP. I put a lot into obtaining my degree. I graduated from this school with a high GPA and was accepted into a very competitive masters program. As a graduate from this school I feel bad to talk about it in a negative way, but the truth is the truth. I had teachers who didn’t understand why my eductaion was so important to me. I have been threatend by my second financial aid couselor. I had a academic advisor who simply disappeared. I have have been in very stressful situations with the teachers, couselors and other students. I owe UOP nothing becasue the only way a person makes it through the UOP experience and achieves any kind of success in life is by being relentles sin their pursuit of improving themselves. I have high morals and values and I am ashamed to be a part of this school. Any student or employee should feel the same. I say this because they are participating in an organization that ruins the positive experience that college should be. The good is supposed to out weigh the bad. It’s the other way around at UOP.
Think….Be open minded….Ok let us begin.
If there are that many employees, which we know there are hundreds if not thousands. The only reason you would not keep your job is because you were not willing to conform to the UOP way. Granted these ways may not be in YOUR personal code of ethics handbook, but the job is obviously available. Looking at this dilemma from a business owners perspective I would have to say that yes numbers are what get the company paid but should not be blown out of proportion. There will always be some bad seeds in the batch, especially with a huge school like UOP. All of this goes and should be known to grown adults without saying.
If you are looking to work with UOP or already work with the company, stick around for a while because there are some new policies in place that will make you very pleased. These new policies directly address your issues and furthermore those of you who are not happy with your current team (management) then you can be transfered to another team, office, or division with the proper guidance. Nothing great comes without some effort, research, a challenge on your part.
Thanks to all of those people, as unfortunate as these incidences have been. These have led to some much needed changes within UOP that are taking effect as you read this. We all live an learn, right?
I would be willing to bet everything I have on the fact that 95% of those posting pro-UOP comments and insulting the author’s blog post are in management positions at UOP, members of the “UOP Mormon Mafia” (which is what they called it when I worked there), or more likely… both.
I worked for UOP Online in Phoenix back in 2004 in admissions. I had never seen a business run so dishonestly and have never seen one since. It was clear that this company was purely about profit and any allusions to UOP being about education were total lies.
Promotion of LDS church members by other Mormons was the norm. I watched it happen daily. Non-Mormons were treated completely differently and given horrible leads. My “manager” (quotes = sarcasm) had no managerial skills whatsoever and was promoted to manager because he had enrolled a lot of students during his time as an admissions counselor and he was also Mormon. A manager should at least have the most basic managerial skills before being put in a management position. That concept is the norm anywhere else, but not at UOP.
I’ll never forget the day that one of the managers in our huge call center got word somehow that the Department of Education was going to be sending a representative that day to check on some claims that had been made. Managers ran around in a frenzy, rapidly erasing enrollment numbers (REGs) off of dry erase boards all around the call center (each team had one with each counselor’s name and admissions totals for the month). It reminded me of a scene from the movie “Boiler Room.”
UOP completely scammed the Department of Education, its students, and its ground-level employees. UOP is a Mormon-run scam purely to financially benefit the company’s owners and high-ranking Mormon employees.
Don’t believe me? Think this sounds like some crazy conspiracy theory.
Ask the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.
UOP is a completely unethical company. Period. And I stand by my assertion that 95% of those leaving pro-UOP comments here are part of the Mormon hierarchy of the company. Just look at how the comments are worded. They sound like the same kind of slimy sales pitches used to pressure people into buying in to UOP’s B.S. “education.”
Sorry folks, you’re not selling anything to me.
I recently left the University of Phoenix after working there for a year as a Academic Counselor. It was the worst year of my life. The media is only scratching the surface of that hell on earth. If you really want to know how terrible it is, talk to former staff. I say former staff because current staff are required to put on a smiley face and pretend like everything is perfect when everyone knows it sucks. That place is a diploma mill (just look at the Directed Studies and tell me students aren’t paying thousands of dollars for their useless degree). The University of Phoenix deserves all of the bad press they are getting AND MORE! That place should lose federal funding. They aren’t helping anyone, except themselves. They promote people with personality disorders and spend their time breaking down people until they either quit or adjust. They pay staff beans and expect miracles. The funny thing is, they have this pillar, “Job of Choice” What a joke. That place is the LAST place I would choose. They use tuition reimbursement as a noose around your neck. I could go on and on, but I am sure that I am just preaching to the choir. University of Phoenix is the worst place to work. Don’t even go there. They have thousands of openings at any moment for a reason!
A lawsuit filed in October against the University of Phoenix for religious discrimination. Go to the 17th Judicial Circuit in Broward County Florida and search case# 10040467. This will tell you the truth about these people and this university!
The Southern Arizona Campus lets an employee go. Screws up the last paycheck; including not paying the overtime employee worked. Disputes unemployment benefits after saying they do not dispute unemployment claims. Wow. Really UOP?
The big, bad corporation goes after an employee over unemployment benefits. Again, really? Too many ineffective middle managers with low emotional IQ’s seeking revenge for employees who refuse to sign their ridiculous waiver of rights.
This does not help an already tarnished image, UOP. This is a story I plan to write about at great length. I would love to sit in on one of their manager training sessions. Hilarious.
Say NO to UOP. Get a real degree and work for a real University.
Good luck New Job. You show the same excitement as my client did. Promoted and given raises and then services no longer needed. Maybe the management where you are will be more effective than the Tucson campus management. In fact, even after leaving UOP he was quiet about his experience. But then the vindictiveness began. That is when I was hired by a family member. Contesting of unemployment benefits, Flexible Spending Account interference and much more.
FYI present employees. Anything you are requested to sign, get a copy.
Well, it doesn’t surprise me that there are so many of us disgruntled students and employees from Phoenix. It’s a business, and businesses must make a profit. It’s a shame they had do it our backs. Forget litigation. First of all, no lawyer is going to do this on a contingency basis (no pay up front). Litigation is costly as heck and takes a long, long time. How are you all going to appear at court on the right days, only to find the case moved forward a month or two more or moved to another jurisdiction (state). It’s the way litigation goes and it’s not pretty. Besides that, you will just build up more and more negative energy. I have enough experience to know that this route will make everyone unhappier and broker, period. Not pretty, but it’s reality. I too had the same problem and decided that instead of begging some moromic cult driven organization to grant me a degree, I would cut my studies short while I still had some money and get myself a life experience degree. Whoa, I can hear the uproar now, but I’m going to tell you that most of what you receive at even a good university is indoctrination (download ‘Indoctrinate-u’and it will put shed light on the subject). I decided for myself and my family to take the bull by the horns. I’m going to tell you where I went because you don’t have my name and they transferred credits from Phoenix. Have a look at life-experience-degrees.webs.com. They helped me get over my anger and pity and start my life anew. I’m darn grateful. Wishing you all the best. P.S. Even I did get our Phoenix degree, it would be worth SH_T with all this bad press. So I don’t even want it now.
Seems like there is no shortage of complaints about UOP. They got my money and I got the debt. Well, not really much use in complaining and no use in litigation. I certainly don’t want to just stew in anger. But I may have found a solution. I am going to look into it. They say they can get me a degree which is what I wanted in the first place, not debt. I’ll let you know how it goes. They are at unversity-of-phoenix-sucks.webs.com. I can’t explain it here, but it’s very cheap and quick. I like that because by now I’m pretty fed up with waiting.
http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2010/10/26/20101026biz-apollo1026-ONL.html
The feds have widened their probe into Apollo Group and UOP.
No surprise here.
The commenter saying they got a job at the University of Maine is lying. There is no “Dean of Academics” at UMaine and no Dean at the University of Maine has a PhD from University of Phoenix.
UOP is a scam that prays on students who are either too stupid to get into a real school, or those of us who are intelligent and thought that the school really did provide a way for us to finish our education and fit it into our busy lives. I was one of those students, and a former employee and it was the biggest mistake of my life! The academic standards are a JOKE!
I started my MBA there and after a few classes I realized that the information being covered was at a freshman level at best, and I knew more about the subjects than the so called instructors who were “administering” my classes. There are NO ADMISSION standards except that you have a pulse, and NO TESTING! How could you possibly measure the academic progress of the students without having exams?
What’s worse is that the few exams I did have to take online were all OPEN BOOK! I did not have to go to a testing center, and I FOUND THE ANSWERS TO EVERY QUESTION POSTED ONLINE BY SIMPLY DOING A GOOGLE SEARCH!!! Also, while taking my so called “exam” I discovered that EVERY HOMEWORK ASSIGNMENT FROM EVERY CLASS, and EVERY DEGREE PROGRAM, IS AVAILABLE ONLINE at several sites like – STUDENT OF FORTUNE (there are others)! All students have to do is pay a couple $’s and they can simply buy their homework. Meanwhile several former students are making $100,000 + selling their homework online on these sites to former students!!! And UOP actually has the nerve to publish an annual academic quality report that shows UOP students perform better than students from traditional schools! Are you kidding me, I learned more at my local community college, and that only cost me $70 a credit verses the $600 per credit I paid at UOP!
Also, 70 percent of UOP online classes consist of doing open book “discussion questions” and classroom “participation”. Participation means that you have to have an online discussion with the other mindless idiots in your class who babel on about stuff that is nowhere near relevant to the material that you are supposed to be learning, and don’t even get me started on the so called “learning team” experience. What a JOKE! And to the former tech support employee above who blogged about the “value of learning teams” teaching you to work in teams, are you serious – this is a perfect example of the BRAINWASHING that UOP does to keep their employees and students quiet. Anyone who objectively can tell me that you learned anything about working with other people from your LT experience has some serious social problems to begin with. We learn these skills when we are kids, not at UOP. You LITERALLY don’t learn anything from any of these activities, and if you do want to learn anything from your classes you have to TEACH YOURSELF by reading the material and learning it YOURSELF! They don’t even call their teachers “teachers” or “professors” because they don’t TEACH ANYTHING! They are called “facilitators” because all they do is post the discussion questions online, and grade the fake papers that students copy and pasted from a website!
My short time as a UOP enrollment counselor was among the lowest points in my life. I hated the job from day one, but my wife wasn’t working at the time, and I was trying to start my business, so I stayed there for a year until she started working. To anyone who I actually enrolled in that scam, I am truly SORRY, and I want to tell you the truth now, so that others can be spared from wasting a tremendous amount of time and money.
First of all the employees are ALL BRAINWASHED from DAY #1. They are told that they are “changing lives”, and that is not a lie, however, they are not changing lives for the good, instead they are RUINING LIVES by saddling students with WORTHLESS DEGREES and DEBT that they will never be able to repay! While I was there I was told by a “regional vice president” that were TARGETED BLACKS & HISPANICS, ESPECIALLY SINGLE MOTHERS BECAUSE THAT WAS ARE TARGET AUDIENCE!!! I couldn’t believe what I was hearing, but it was true, since I soon realized that these individuals made up 70% of the student population in Florida.
They also preyed on INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS and new PERMANENT RESIDENTS who were new to this country and didn’t know any better, and FORMER CONVICTS WHO WERE RECRUITED STRAIGHT OUT OF PRISON!!! They taught us to “PROBE FOR A STUDENTS MOTIVATION” and make the “FEEL THE PAIN of NOT HAVING A DEGREE” (basically guilt them into going to school or make them feel like a loser). They also taught us to build “RAPPORT” with potential students so that they would “TRUST” us. Each employee was required to meet their “QUOTA” of students or face a decrease in salary or termination – EVEN THOUGH THIS WAS AN ILLEGAL PRACTICE, they got around the rules by saying that this was not the sole basis of compensation. However, 2 former UOP employees recently were awarded an “undisclosed amount” of money in a lawsuit that they files regarding this practice of pay for enrollments. They also required us to bring in at least 8 referrals a month, and retain 80% of our students past the second course. Anyone who didn’t meat these standards were met with swift and severe punishment and humiliation. Managers and directors were always quick to say that it was all about the #’s and brag about all the money that we were making. (I could go on forever about the disgusting business practices used at this school, but I’ll save that all for another post).
THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART AND SHOULD BE READ VERY CAREFULLY BY ANYONE WHO HATES THIS ORGANIZATION AS MUCH AS ME –
UOP also engaged in unethical and ILLEGAL practices when it came to the handling of students FINANCIAL AID! The Stafford Loan program is the LIFEBLOOD of UOP and without it they would be out of business quickly because none of their students could afford their ridiculous tuition costs. The government has a rule called the COHORT DEFAULT RULE that states that a schools students “DEFAULT RATE” cannot go above a certain level (%) or that school would not be eligible to receive FEDERAL AID ANYMORE. THIS WOULD PUT UOP OUT OF BUSINESS INSTANTLY! Since UOP has NO ADMISSION STANDARDS (doesn’t even verify high school diplomas in most cases) and their DEGREES ARE WORTHLESS the VAST MAJORITY OF THEIR STUDENTS DON”T GRADUATE, and CAN”T PAY BACK THEIR HUGE LOANS, so THEY DEFAULT… UOP knows this and so they have to engage in the deceptive and hopefully soon to be illegal practice of – RETURNING THE STUDENTS FUNDS TO THE LENDER.
THIS IS IMPORTANT – if a student takes out financial aid to pay for school they are entering into a contract between themselves (student) and the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT (through Stafford Loans). The contract says that the student does not have to start paying back their loans until 6 months from their last date of attendance. HOWEVER, UOP INTERFERS WITH THIS CONTRACT and SENDS STUDENT FUNDS BACK TO THE LENDER, AND THEN TRY TO COLLECT DIRECTLY FROM THE STUDENT in 30 DAYS.
FOR EXAMPLE – a student starts a UOP class like GEN/200, student realizes that the school is shit or fails the class and wants to withdraw after this course. They currently owe UOP $1500 for the class, WHICH IS COVERED BY FINANCIAL AID. Once they withdraw they should have 6 months to start making payments, and only have to pay $50 a month, per the federal guidelines. HOWEVER, UOP knows that there is a GREAT CHANCE that this student will DEFAULT ON THIS LOAN, because they have no means to pay it back, so UOP WILL INTERFERE WITH THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE STUDENT AND THE GOVERNMENT AND SEND THE FUNDS BACK TO THE GOVERNMENT ON THE STUDENTS BEHALF!!!!! Stop and think about that for a moment, UOP is interfering as a 3rd party in a relationship between the student & government. SINCE THE GOVERNMENT NOW HAS THEIR MONEY BACK THIS STUDENT DOES NOT COUNT AGAINST UOP’s DEFAULT RATE!!! UOP then harrassess the student relentlessly and sends their bill collectors after them, they threaten the student by telling them that they have ONLY 30 DAYS TO PAY IN FULL!!!! Verses the 6 month grace period and $50/month agreement they have with the government. IF THE STUDENT DOES NOT PAY IN 30 DAYS THEY ARE TURNED INTO THE COLLECTION AGENCY WHO ALSO HARASSES THE STUDENT AND RUINS THE STUDENTS CREDIT! UOP knows that they will collect very little of this money EVER, but they are willing to accept this small loss because THEY MAKE SO MUCH MORE MONEY BY KEEPING THEIR FINANCIAL AID (TITLE IV) STATUS!
If they did not return this money to the lender, and take a financial loss they would have been out of business decades ago!!! Think about that they actually knowingly take a loss from 100,000+ students a year, because they are making SO MUCH MORE MONEY FROM EVERYONE ELSE!!!
There is currently a “class action” lawsuit that was filed by several UOP students in Arkansas regarding this practice of returning money to the lender. However, UOP lawyers will draw this case out for a decade just like they did with the “pay for enrollment case” which was originally filed in 2001.
We should all work together and contact our CONGRESSMEN AND SENATORS and urge them to crackdown on this illegal (and unethical) practice, and ENFORCE THE COHORT DEFAULT RULE, and put UOP out of business. Or if too many UOP students default on their loans Congress would have no choice to put them out of business as well.
Speaking of UOP’s business do any of you realize how much money this company has made from ripping off students for decades? Currently UOP’s founder Dr. John Sperling is worth over $6 BILLION DOLLARS! Please do some research on this man, he is pure evil. Also their executives currently make over $5 million each, and receive $100′s of millions in stock options! BTW, UOP executives were also involved in a stock options “backdating” scandal several years ago, you can find info on the internet.
This company makes $5 BILLION a year in revenues, currently has $1.2 BILLION in CASE on the balance sheet, a 45% return on equity, and a gross operating margin of 65%!!!!
For those of you who aren’t finance majors let me tell you that there are probably less than 0.05% of all major companies in America with those kinds of profit #’s and they aren’t happy with those! WHAT OTHER UNIVERSITY IS MAKING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR? MOST “REAL” SCHOOLS HAVE TO RELY ON DONATIONS, BOOSTERS, ALUMNI, AND GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE JUST TO MAKE PAYROLL!!! UOP is making billions because they are overcharging for an inferior product, not paying their employees, not hiring real professors, and not providing any sort of VALUE AT ALL in their education.
I PROPOSE A CAMPAIGN TO SHUT DOWN UOP ONCE AND FOR ALL. The stock APOL is down 60% this year because of government pressure and articles and undercover investigations which have exposed the university for the fraud that it is. Congress is currently debating legislation (gainful employment laws) that will take affect next year, HOWEVER UOP has BILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND THEY WON”T GO DOWN WITHOUT A FIGHT. THEY HAVE HIRE an ARMY OF WASHINGTON LOBBYIEST TO PAY OFF AND BRIBE CONGRESSMEN AND SENATORS TO WATERDOWN THIS BILL. WE CANNOT LET THIS HAPPEN.
I PROPOSE STARTING A NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION THAT USES SOCIAL MEDIA & THE INTERNET TO PUT PRESSURE ON CONGRESS TO FIND THE TRUTH ABOUT THIS SO CALLED SCHOOL AND TAKE AWAY THEIR TITLE IV STATUS, SO THEY WON’T BE ABLE TO “CHANGE LIVES” for the WORSE ANYMORE! IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED IN JOINING ME FOR SUCH AN ENDEAVOR PLEASE RESPOND ANONYMOUSLY ON THIS BLOG AND WE CAN GO FROM THERE.
UOP CURRENTLY HAS OVER 400,000 VICITIMS (STUDENTS) AND AS A FORMER EMPLOYEE WHO KNOWS THE TRUTH, I FEEL THE RIGHT THING TO DO IS TO EXPOSE THEM SO THAT THE NEXT 400,000 STUDENTS ARE NOT TAKIN ADVANTAGE OF.
ALSO AS A US TAXPAYER I DON’T WANT THIS SCAM TO KEEP RECEIVING $5 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR OF MY TAX MONEY. PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU ARE WILLING TO HELP.
I started orientation 11/08/2010 for 3 wks i was told i missed 1 post which caused me not to pass orientation i decided to redo orientation for 3 more weeks after the three weeks which was 12/19/2010 i was told i missed 2 assignments i cried because i spent 6 or more hours on my computer dealing with this orientation i explained to them no third time for me i rather find another school i would have to wait 6 months to redo orientation this really hurt when you put everything on the back burner to get an education and find out you got a no passing grade
This is to UOP Truth … I would like to join your plea to stop the nonsense at UOP. I enrolled over 100 students to UOP and am ashamed thinking I was helping and not realizing I was hurting them. The management treated me horribly and forced me to quit because of the hostile environment. I have since filed a complaint with the EEOC. I am just one little person and I would definitely like to be part of something bigger.
From what I read on http://www.glassdoor.com, DeVry is no better, except they might treat their employees better than UoP.
All of these complaints are from people who have quit the UOP because they could not keep up academically one way or another. And the others are people who just got fired and want to bitch ; boo.. hoo..on a blog. (life sucks even for educated people when it comes to jobs) Write some more if you want to losers. L L L L Losers; need I say more.
Not another bitch’athon blog where all the drop-outs can complain and put down UOP. Wow ! Try finishing what you start or doing a good job. You might succeed in your goals if you do so. As for those with small children; well you are winners if you are taking care of them even without a degree. You are winners even if college does not work out for you.
Single father of 2 for 16 years and Alumni of UOP.
J. Cottrell – 2011
J, You should read this blog before you get too smug. http://for-profit-education-online.com
Hello I have a story about UOP but on a students view point. My daughter signed up right after grads high school to take a class online and it has been a nightmare every day since. After she signed up it was good for about three days and then she stopped receiving her work, she would contact her teacher and she said she had sent it and then she would give my daughter a 0 for not doing her work after two weeks of doing this UOP dropped my daughter and demanded full payment after sending the money back to financial aid. Why should we be responsable for full payment and she did not get what she signed up for? That would be like going into a department store and buying some goods paying for them and then giving the goods back and not asking for a refund. They will not even retro for just two weeks. They want full payment for the whole course. They want stop calling. Does any one have any ideas what to do?
J Cottrell, are you a member of the “Mormon Mafia” which excels at UOP Online regardless of personal achievement, because your fellow LDS members are shilling for you? I’d bet the farm that you are.
Either way, you drank the Kool-Aid.
Good luck with your “degree” from UOP. 99.9% of employers will treat it like something you found in a Cracker Jack box.
Also: nice attitude.
Also, J Cottrell, your grammar and sentence structure are atrocious. That speaks volumes about what kind of people graduate from UOP and what sort of students they are willing to accept.
You’re supposed to be someone with a higher learning degree, yet your grasp of the English language is that of a high school sophomore in the midst of a failing semester.
Talk some more trash.
I’ve posted this other places, but I’m all about informing people on how awful UoP is, so here’s my student’s standpoint on it:
Just thought that I would add in my experience, because I’m noticing that more people are starting to consult google before they make any decisions. Which is probably a good thing, all things considered.
I’ll be honest and say that I’ve never been the best student – I went to community college right after high school and while I did well, I got bored and flaked out somewhere in the second semester. I went to a different one after that, and then I dropped out and went back to my old one, and then I decided that I’d give UoP a try.
Things I have to say about this University: you will learn if you teach yourself. That’s about the only good thing I have to say.
The admissions counselor was the most charming and silvertongued salesperson I have ever encountered (and I have used car salesmen in my family.) She sensed my insecurities and sold me on the idea of convenience and an actual degree.
My first class was…interesting, I guess. I didn’t learn anything because they weren’t actually teaching anything – they were weeding people out, basically, and setting up the format for those students who were unfortunate enough to stay. I was put in a learning group with people who didn’t know how to properly create an outline or annotate a bibliography – and the teacher couldn’t explain how! At my various community college forays, I learned how to do that crap. Really, the learning teams were the worst, because chances are that if you will actually do the work? No one else will. It’s like they smell desperation and the will to just get the crap assignment done, and will pass it off to you with semi-sincere apologies and excuses. The most hilarious part, though, are the classes that are required that the school tries to pass off as for your own benefit – the ones that weigh the differences between online schools and traditional ones, the ones that somehow always manage to end in a commercial for UoP. Literally, they end with a commercial like you’ve seen on the television.
Fast forward a whole damn year (because apparently I’m a masochist) and I’m finally calling it quits. I’m over 10,000$ in debt, and I’ve been doing all of the projects – 5 individual assignments (sometimes more if you count a paper and a powerpoint separately), and every damn team assignment – by myself. The professors don’t actually help out or care, the advisers only talk to you to convince you to give them more money. When you actually need help your advisers are MIA, or when they are holding your loan disbursement – haha, forget it if you are counting on seeing that money any time soon.
Trust me, and this is the best choice I made about UoP, when you do finally get that disbursement? Put it right back into paying off your student loan, because it’s a hell of a lot of money once it’s all said and done, and really, the only reason I stayed for so long is because of the money. I’d hoped that I could stick it out for the degree and then never see that school again, but there are days that I would literally welcome a gunshot to the foot instead of walking back into school.
I have 36 credits that I’m not sure are going to transfer anywhere. I’m probably going to (ahahah) go back to community college to see if I can get some sort of degree. I am going to warn everyone I can to not go to UoP.
Yes, you will learn, because you will teach yourself. Yes, you might get a degree, if you don’t mind getting your soul sucked out of you. It’s not worth it, because while it’s more convenient, it costs more, and this school is composed entirely of monetary vampires. They will get your money and they will suck you dry, and you’ll be forced to continue to drink their damn kool-aid for faux sustenance and out of hope of finishing your degree.
I’m terribly glad I got out while I still owe less than 20,000$. I hate this scam of a school.
Here’s an eye-opening “Ask Me Anything” thread on Reddit from a former Admissions Director at UOP:
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/iiduq/iama_former_director_of_admissions_from/
Why is everyone so angry? I recently earned a B.S. from UOP and have received several interviews from outside sources. I am also attending grad school at California State University, Sacramento. Sacramento State gladly accepted my B.S. from UOP.This is only a blog, please do not pick on individuals who fail to respond in APA format
Everyone please use your energy towards being a productive citizen and promoting happiness.
Peace
I hold a B.S. and M.S. from two different traditional brick and mortar institutions. I taught some classes at these traditional schools and thought I could expand into the online environment as well. I interviewed for a few online instructor positions with UOP. I heard and saw all the advertising on the radio and tv and thought that UOP would be a little bit more legit than what I discovered. Wow. I was in for a shock. So much of an emphasis for instructors (AKA “facilitators”) was simply to make students happy, help them earn good grades, and moderate the discussion board – all in an attempt to keep students coming back. I did the math and for a part-time instructor teaching one course, the pay would have been equivalent to about $3/hour after factoring in all of the grading and UOP faculty time requirments. This is a for-profit university, so there are other interests that conflict with providing a quality education. Margins and Shareholders. I quickly disassociated myself with the university. There is no replacement for attending a traditional brick and mortar school. However, if you’re looking for a piece of paper at any cost then UOP may be for you.
I agree with Monica– please keep in mind this is a blog and not in APA format! I am currently an UOP student and am 39 credits away from graduating with a BA in Psychology. Though, only 12 of those credits have been received from UOP, I am moderately satisfied with my experience thus far. I am not part of any Mafia nor am I Mormon (I am barely anything). I am aware that you can Google answers but there are all kinds of ways to cheat– if you are a cheater! I work hard and am learning a lot, but you have to be self-motivated. You are, in a sense, teaching yourself, but would you get that much more help in a class of 100 in a large traditional university? The team projects are ones that I could live without– my first one was horrible!! I had to be the bossypants, having to bark orders, even having to call people at home pushing them to get their portions done– For the record- I don’t like having to do that! I have been lucky since then though, I have two people that have been in my classes since my second one and we always request being on the same team. This really helps because no matter how crappy the rest of the team is, I always have at least two people I can rely on to help with the work load. I am a stay-at-home mom of two and I run an in-home day care, needless to say my days are packed!! Not trying to toot my on horn, but I consider myself — well — I’ll just say– not stupid!
UOP is working for me but to each his own. Good Luck to everyone with whatever path you choose!
I agree with both of you!
I just graduated from UoP (8/14/11) for my Associates! I do not know where half of this hate from UoP is coming from, but some people can be so.. “okay he or she said that so I’m jumping on the bandwagon and follow the leader…, just to be one of them.” Of course, UoP may have baggage, but does not every college?? Hmmm? BTW, congratulations to you and Monica! 
I can absolutely agree with some of those who have commented on this blog in a positive manner- the experience varies from campus to campus and state to state. I have attended and worked for the University of Phoenix and had a great experience. I had a rigorous educational experience and an employment experience that changed my life. Because of University of Phoenix, I grew as an individual personally and professionally. Having the opportunity to learn from our students and to see them PROUD of their educational accomplishments gave me life! They were accepted at a University that would give them a chance, some worked hard and excelled and others did not because they took the opportunity for granted or came into something that was way over their heads- their choice. The ones that excelled sought to CHANGE THEIR LIFE WHEN OTHER INSTITUTIONS WEREN’T GIVING THEM A FAIR CHANCE LIKE MOST TRADITIONAL UNIVERSITIES. And yes, I did attend a traditional University for my undergraduate degree. I don’t understand why people feel they were made into victims? Did your advisor sign you up? NO, you did. Did your advisor complete your financial aid paperwork? NO, you did. Did your advisors advise you to leave the University only to default on your loans? NO, again, you did. What you nay-sayers need to realize are a few things:
1. No educational experience is the same and it won’t all be peaches and cream; nor will your employment experiences.
2. Debt is a part of life whether you’re buying a house, car, TV or whatever have you. YOU make the choice to incur debt therefore you should have to pay it back.
3. The University isn’t to blame- YOU are. Why did you take the job? Why did you decide to attend the school? I’m sorry folks but the, “they called me repeatedly, or they convinced me to go to school there, is a crock of BS. Aren’t you an adult? Do you not have a choice? I think so. University of Phoenix can’t take your Free Will. Use it wisely, but don’t blame the University-blame yourself.
As for the “for-profit” educational industry, it’s not a secret that it’s a business. But if you haven’t done your due diligence to research if this type of educational institution is for you as an employee or student, you have to blame yourself. I have seen instructors, advisors and managers bend over backwards to ensure the educational/student experience at the University of Phoenix is exceptional. There aren’t many schools that offer the student an ENTIRE GRADUATION TEAM. They call you weekly to ensure you’re successful. I’m sorry, but I didn’t get that at my traditional state school for my Undergrad degree. Since 2010, the University of Phoenix has even moved away from enrollments, calls, etc. (anything with numerical value that is related to compensation) to ensure that the focus is the total student experience. So what do you have to say now? The stigma that the traditional college education is better is dumb. It is really up to the individual student to determine what learning environment is best for them. If you don’t want the environment of using real work experiences, APA format and writing papers, and working in learning teams that simulate the real world then DON’T attend a non-traditional university. If you don’t want to go to huge lecture classes where you’re one of 345 in a class, study for days and nights just to regurgitate on a 50 question multiple choice test, write papers and participate in lab work when your major is Management then DON’T attend a traditional university. Go where it suits you, be an informed ADULT and make your own choices. Don’t blame an entity because you made the choice to go there. Again, I understand that all experiences vary because some managers and advisors aren’t going to be candid about the typical experience, but understand that the single experiences represented in this blog are completely opinions. It’s obvious that some of these people were fired or probably terminated and needed a place to vent. I left to pursue my dream, but had I not had the opportunity to work for and attend the University of Phoenix, my outlook on reality would have STILL been skewed to this day. People are struggling and are looking for a way out, there are places that try to inform them of their options, give them the choice to better themselves or show them other options that would suit them. This is what my University of Phoenix experience has been like. I am thankful for my opportunity. Good luck to all of the graduates, you should be proud.
I teach at UoP and have little respect for the students’ “accomplishments”. These courses are a joke. Instructors get paid about $1,000 per course. During training I was told the average workload was 20-25 hrs per week. If that’s true, over a five week course we get paid about $9-$10 per hour. Exactly how much effort do you think any instructor is going to put in for Wal-Mart money? Student performance is HORRIBLE! If I showed you some of the papers I get you would laugh (assuming you could even understand them). To all UoP grads who are proud of their accomplishment: if you want to wrap yourself in the delusion that your degree is worth anything…have fun. But speaking as someone who teaches here, I would NEVER hire you. I’m laughing all the way to the bank. UoP is “for-profit” and wants to maximize those profits? Well so do I! I do this by putting as little time or effort into the course. Thanks, suckers!
I will be graduating from the University of Phoenix with a Masters in Science Counseling/Marriage and Family Therapy degree. My experiences with the financial advisors and academic advisors was not great. I had to contact my financial advisor multiple times to follow up on issues I had. But the teachers I had were great! All my teachers cared for their students and wanted to ensure we were prepared for working with clients. At my practicum site (which by the way was not affiliated with UoP) I received many compliments on the therapist skills I have learned from the UoP. Of course I did have my courses on site rather than online so that probably made a difference. Also, yes, I did not find the program very difficult, but I also put a lot of work into my assignments and had learning teams that cared about succeeding. Anyway, I just wanted to throw in my experience since many people have no problem complaining about their experience.